Your description of the dissident right really suggests it as a very nascent faction.
It reads like: Over here we have a Jewish Elite technocrat that thinks he is a dark elf and wants the world to be formalized. And over here is a bunch of guys who are obsessed with being super buff. And over here is a hyper-intelligent man who hates technology so much that he sends bombs to random people in the mail. And here is a doom-mongering British guy who is obsessed with the hand gestures of a British Politician from the 90s who he believes is the dark lord. And over here we have some very dedicated traditional Catholics.
In any other time, you would never categorize these people in the same group, but here we are. The political gimbals really have changed.
Here's the section I was looking forwards too, since I fall into these categories myself.
I think the unifying factor of the Dissident Right is the heavy intellectual bleed between all of the sub-categories here, even compared to your other groupings. Yarvin's writing is obviously visible in all of them, from the clear inspiration the Caesarists took ("if kings do return, I think it will be under the sign of the cross"), to the more subtle inspiration that BAP and the luddites take from Yarvin's more arch-reactionary musings on virtue. Similarly, you have Bronze Age Mindset clearly influencing a more masculine turn in the grouping, and the polemics and research of REN giving voice to the luddite streak previously exemplified by anons like Wrath of Gnon. Readers and anons like myself travel fairly freely between these sub-categories because, at the end of the day, they are all more-or-less unified by the same fundamental rejection of the idea of Progress.
I do however think that you've given somewhat short shrift to the neo-luddites. It's fairly clear that much of technological modernity is poison to the body or soul, and that our unproblematic embrace (may Allah forgive me for uttering this phrase!) of new technologies has had serious unrecognised costs. The food point in particular seems to be poorly understood - it is precisely the massive overproduction, poor quality, and waste of food in the first world that points to things like fake meat and other technological panaceas being a false hope at best. Things like factory farms and other titanic cruelties are because of technological modernity, not in spite of it, and properly rejecting them requires also the rejection of huge portions of our modern civilisation - to wit, the all corporate fast food and most corporate grocers would be a casualty
> However, one thing I condemn about these tendencies is how it’s made artificial meat ‘left-coded’, leading to destructive laws from right-wing governments, like the complete ban on artificial meat in Italy. This is immensely destructive, pointless, and will harm the environment and animal welfare, all simply for the purposes of appearing ‘based’ and appeasing farmers lobbies.
Artificial Meat is a pipe dream. That’s the reason the right doesn’t like it. Growing cells in a lab which were made to be grown on a living organism is intuitively far less efficient than growing cells on that organism, and on top of that it obviously isn’t going anywhere any time soon if you critically investigate the claims made by its drivers. We’d be better off just genetically modifying animals or turning them all into vegetables (like, they don’t think) if you want to reduce cruelty.
> It is pretty obvious that BAP is a homosexual, but he doesn’t identify with the ‘LGBT rights movement’ as his homoeroticism is more traditionalist and classical, celebrating the dominance aspect of sodomy as opposed to thinking of himself as part of an ‘oppressed minority group’
Ehh, first of all, people overstate the “dominance” stuff about Greek pederasty. Greeks were not sodomizing their eromenoi. This level of sexual dominance was considered too humiliating and traumatizing and would result in a defective adult later on. Also, it’s not like the Middle East where they’d be dressing up little boys like girls and fucking them. This would be viewed as demented to the Greeks. Not to mention, sodomy obviously spreads disease. Secondly, I don’t think BAP is an “obvious homosexual”, maybe a 1 on the Kinsey scale, but most of the homosexuality stuff is just meant to troll. You can never really tell when he’s being serious. Also, people often intentionally misunderstand his arguments, like when he was arguing that men were more beautiful than women. Christians who talk all day about how carnal desire is different from genuine appreciation of beauty seem to have forgotten this at this occasion. I get a lot of well-bred farm animals like cows, sheep’s, chickens, goose, on my Instagram feed. They’re very aesthetic. But that doesn’t mean I want to have sex with them!
Other than those two things… Pretty fair. I feel this also shows how different the DR is to the old AR. Basically the two things you had to believe in to be Alt-Right were race realism and some form of the JQ. The Dissident Right is much tamer and more varied in thought. Like, half of it now is about nutrition for some reason. Luddism, especially the Kaczynski fan club, I wouldn’t give much more gravitas than the conspiracy crowd. Kaczynski was to Heidegger what Diogenes was to Anisthenes, basically an oversimplification and misunderstanding of the latter’s ideas. Heidegger acknowledges the evil of technology, but also acknowledges the unending advance of it, and so wants civilizations to foster technology but not become lethargic and reliant on it. Kaczynski does not understand the second part, probably because while extremely intelligent he was an autist with severe mental illness.
I’m proud to say that I don’t belong to any of these factions, honestly
I listened to a lecture by Thiel recently where he mentions BAP and it surprised me. Never realized how big of an influence he had thru Claremont and others. I think there is a lot of overlap. I’ve been reading into your takes on Techno-Optomism and what I can only call the “Secular Right” and I think we agree on a lot of things. Very well done sir.
Been anticipating this one the most since the first teaser of all the factions, mainly to learn more about the BAPists and the Neo-Luddite tendency, which for the most part I always felt had a strong left-leaning element but I can see how many on the right would be sympathetic. Great work again!
I misssed your section on 'Neo Luddites' and wonder now if you're being fair to Raw Egg Nationalist.
"Somewhat more problematic members of the faction are people like Raw Egg Nationalist, and other celebrity anons like Stone Age Herbalist."
Problematic is (or has become, divorced of its original meaning) a horrible and empty word. What do you mean by it here?
"I was tempted to put Raw Egg Nationalist in the ‘Conspiracy Theorist’ faction just because I get kooky ‘vibes’ from his work. However, because I want to try and be fair I’m not going to apply that charged label to him..."
But you kind of already have applied it to him, just by saying you're not going to do it.
"In his book ‘The Eggs Benedict Option (2022)’ and elsewhere, Raw Egg Nationalist talks about how there are all kinds of toxic additives and chemicals in food and people need to eat ‘natural’ foods."
He may well be right; certainly he cites plenty of studies that back up his claims.
"However, one thing I condemn about these tendencies is how it’s made artificial meat ‘left-coded’, leading to destructive laws from right-wing governments, like the complete ban on artificial meat in Italy. This is immensely destructive, pointless, and will harm the environment and animal welfare, all simply for the purposes of appearing ‘based’ and appeasing farmers lobbies."
Oh I think there's more to it than that. Can you explain why you like artificial meat?
"This Neo-Luddite tendency bleeds into anti-vaxxers (with the exception of Mary Harrington, who seems too intelligent for that)"
> This is the basis of his ‘Woke being put away’ prediction, that the elite will realise that Wokeness is counterproductive and will return to 1990s liberalism.
But believing that it's possible to just go back to 1990s sexual morays without them degenerating into modern LGBTQ+ degeneracy is perfectly rational.
I agree with you about Nick Land, he’s incomprehensible. Nonetheless, a fascinating, thinker and writer, who seems to show you glimpses of something spectacular, but I can’t quite pull it together, and I’m not sure that it’s really there, whatever it is.
No BAP-swarm commenting here? I would correct some minor mischaracterisations, but pedantry is but one letter distant from peasantry (if you aristocratically mis-spell one or the other, as Alcibiades would) so never mind.
As someone who likely falls into the "Christian Parallelist" camp, I appreciate your categorical analysis. I used to be really into the "Classical Neoreactionary" camp as well but have drifted away somewhat, partially due to touching grass and partially due to seeing non-stop, autistically-analytical doomerism. The whole Keith Woods, Academic Agent fight turned me away from AA as, while I disagree with Keith Woods ideologically, I do think it's retarded to argue that you're somehow above ideology itself.
It seems what unifies all these groups is, obviously primarily opposition to the current regime but also the desire to return to some form of real, meta-physical epistemology and identity. I'd say this unities all of these groups aside from some of the original "Classical Neoreactionaries," though perhaps I'm just projecting and the only real shared unity is a common enemy.
I just started a series on "what is a conservative", because a fren called me dissident right, and I find it synchronistic timing that I should have found your substack via the New Right Poast. I have learned a lot here. Thank you.
Your description of the dissident right really suggests it as a very nascent faction.
It reads like: Over here we have a Jewish Elite technocrat that thinks he is a dark elf and wants the world to be formalized. And over here is a bunch of guys who are obsessed with being super buff. And over here is a hyper-intelligent man who hates technology so much that he sends bombs to random people in the mail. And here is a doom-mongering British guy who is obsessed with the hand gestures of a British Politician from the 90s who he believes is the dark lord. And over here we have some very dedicated traditional Catholics.
In any other time, you would never categorize these people in the same group, but here we are. The political gimbals really have changed.
Here's the section I was looking forwards too, since I fall into these categories myself.
I think the unifying factor of the Dissident Right is the heavy intellectual bleed between all of the sub-categories here, even compared to your other groupings. Yarvin's writing is obviously visible in all of them, from the clear inspiration the Caesarists took ("if kings do return, I think it will be under the sign of the cross"), to the more subtle inspiration that BAP and the luddites take from Yarvin's more arch-reactionary musings on virtue. Similarly, you have Bronze Age Mindset clearly influencing a more masculine turn in the grouping, and the polemics and research of REN giving voice to the luddite streak previously exemplified by anons like Wrath of Gnon. Readers and anons like myself travel fairly freely between these sub-categories because, at the end of the day, they are all more-or-less unified by the same fundamental rejection of the idea of Progress.
I do however think that you've given somewhat short shrift to the neo-luddites. It's fairly clear that much of technological modernity is poison to the body or soul, and that our unproblematic embrace (may Allah forgive me for uttering this phrase!) of new technologies has had serious unrecognised costs. The food point in particular seems to be poorly understood - it is precisely the massive overproduction, poor quality, and waste of food in the first world that points to things like fake meat and other technological panaceas being a false hope at best. Things like factory farms and other titanic cruelties are because of technological modernity, not in spite of it, and properly rejecting them requires also the rejection of huge portions of our modern civilisation - to wit, the all corporate fast food and most corporate grocers would be a casualty
> However, one thing I condemn about these tendencies is how it’s made artificial meat ‘left-coded’, leading to destructive laws from right-wing governments, like the complete ban on artificial meat in Italy. This is immensely destructive, pointless, and will harm the environment and animal welfare, all simply for the purposes of appearing ‘based’ and appeasing farmers lobbies.
Artificial Meat is a pipe dream. That’s the reason the right doesn’t like it. Growing cells in a lab which were made to be grown on a living organism is intuitively far less efficient than growing cells on that organism, and on top of that it obviously isn’t going anywhere any time soon if you critically investigate the claims made by its drivers. We’d be better off just genetically modifying animals or turning them all into vegetables (like, they don’t think) if you want to reduce cruelty.
> It is pretty obvious that BAP is a homosexual, but he doesn’t identify with the ‘LGBT rights movement’ as his homoeroticism is more traditionalist and classical, celebrating the dominance aspect of sodomy as opposed to thinking of himself as part of an ‘oppressed minority group’
Ehh, first of all, people overstate the “dominance” stuff about Greek pederasty. Greeks were not sodomizing their eromenoi. This level of sexual dominance was considered too humiliating and traumatizing and would result in a defective adult later on. Also, it’s not like the Middle East where they’d be dressing up little boys like girls and fucking them. This would be viewed as demented to the Greeks. Not to mention, sodomy obviously spreads disease. Secondly, I don’t think BAP is an “obvious homosexual”, maybe a 1 on the Kinsey scale, but most of the homosexuality stuff is just meant to troll. You can never really tell when he’s being serious. Also, people often intentionally misunderstand his arguments, like when he was arguing that men were more beautiful than women. Christians who talk all day about how carnal desire is different from genuine appreciation of beauty seem to have forgotten this at this occasion. I get a lot of well-bred farm animals like cows, sheep’s, chickens, goose, on my Instagram feed. They’re very aesthetic. But that doesn’t mean I want to have sex with them!
Other than those two things… Pretty fair. I feel this also shows how different the DR is to the old AR. Basically the two things you had to believe in to be Alt-Right were race realism and some form of the JQ. The Dissident Right is much tamer and more varied in thought. Like, half of it now is about nutrition for some reason. Luddism, especially the Kaczynski fan club, I wouldn’t give much more gravitas than the conspiracy crowd. Kaczynski was to Heidegger what Diogenes was to Anisthenes, basically an oversimplification and misunderstanding of the latter’s ideas. Heidegger acknowledges the evil of technology, but also acknowledges the unending advance of it, and so wants civilizations to foster technology but not become lethargic and reliant on it. Kaczynski does not understand the second part, probably because while extremely intelligent he was an autist with severe mental illness.
I’m proud to say that I don’t belong to any of these factions, honestly
I listened to a lecture by Thiel recently where he mentions BAP and it surprised me. Never realized how big of an influence he had thru Claremont and others. I think there is a lot of overlap. I’ve been reading into your takes on Techno-Optomism and what I can only call the “Secular Right” and I think we agree on a lot of things. Very well done sir.
Been anticipating this one the most since the first teaser of all the factions, mainly to learn more about the BAPists and the Neo-Luddite tendency, which for the most part I always felt had a strong left-leaning element but I can see how many on the right would be sympathetic. Great work again!
I misssed your section on 'Neo Luddites' and wonder now if you're being fair to Raw Egg Nationalist.
"Somewhat more problematic members of the faction are people like Raw Egg Nationalist, and other celebrity anons like Stone Age Herbalist."
Problematic is (or has become, divorced of its original meaning) a horrible and empty word. What do you mean by it here?
"I was tempted to put Raw Egg Nationalist in the ‘Conspiracy Theorist’ faction just because I get kooky ‘vibes’ from his work. However, because I want to try and be fair I’m not going to apply that charged label to him..."
But you kind of already have applied it to him, just by saying you're not going to do it.
"In his book ‘The Eggs Benedict Option (2022)’ and elsewhere, Raw Egg Nationalist talks about how there are all kinds of toxic additives and chemicals in food and people need to eat ‘natural’ foods."
He may well be right; certainly he cites plenty of studies that back up his claims.
"However, one thing I condemn about these tendencies is how it’s made artificial meat ‘left-coded’, leading to destructive laws from right-wing governments, like the complete ban on artificial meat in Italy. This is immensely destructive, pointless, and will harm the environment and animal welfare, all simply for the purposes of appearing ‘based’ and appeasing farmers lobbies."
Oh I think there's more to it than that. Can you explain why you like artificial meat?
"This Neo-Luddite tendency bleeds into anti-vaxxers (with the exception of Mary Harrington, who seems too intelligent for that)"
You're pro-vax?
> is just something which seems uneducated and low IQ to me. It sounds like how left-wing environmentalists sounded in the 1980s and 1990s,
Says the person who takes Global Warming seriously.
> This is the basis of his ‘Woke being put away’ prediction, that the elite will realise that Wokeness is counterproductive and will return to 1990s liberalism.
But believing that it's possible to just go back to 1990s sexual morays without them degenerating into modern LGBTQ+ degeneracy is perfectly rational.
This was a good post, a helpful overview.
I agree with you about Nick Land, he’s incomprehensible. Nonetheless, a fascinating, thinker and writer, who seems to show you glimpses of something spectacular, but I can’t quite pull it together, and I’m not sure that it’s really there, whatever it is.
Capital work once more
No BAP-swarm commenting here? I would correct some minor mischaracterisations, but pedantry is but one letter distant from peasantry (if you aristocratically mis-spell one or the other, as Alcibiades would) so never mind.
I don't think BAP is ghey he just promotes idolization of The Brotherhood on "Handsome Thursdays"
As someone who likely falls into the "Christian Parallelist" camp, I appreciate your categorical analysis. I used to be really into the "Classical Neoreactionary" camp as well but have drifted away somewhat, partially due to touching grass and partially due to seeing non-stop, autistically-analytical doomerism. The whole Keith Woods, Academic Agent fight turned me away from AA as, while I disagree with Keith Woods ideologically, I do think it's retarded to argue that you're somehow above ideology itself.
It seems what unifies all these groups is, obviously primarily opposition to the current regime but also the desire to return to some form of real, meta-physical epistemology and identity. I'd say this unities all of these groups aside from some of the original "Classical Neoreactionaries," though perhaps I'm just projecting and the only real shared unity is a common enemy.
Wait, why do you say BAP is gay? I haven't followed his twitter for long, but I've listened to most of his show, and I didn't get that at all.
"After reading some of the Neo-Alt Right material from sources like Counter-Currents...."
Well, it might have been wiser to have started reading before theorizing.
I just started a series on "what is a conservative", because a fren called me dissident right, and I find it synchronistic timing that I should have found your substack via the New Right Poast. I have learned a lot here. Thank you.
Are you gay or Jewish perhaps?